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Bass player here. Yes, we have tone and love tone. I used an SVT from the early 80s to the mid 2000s. Moved to an Ampeg tube pre, also an SVT 4 Pro. I would rather play a modeller now. Plug straight into the PA. Play with headphones/in ears. Less weight. Less space. Easier volume control. Is it different from playing with my Ampeg behind me? Of course. I miss it. To the audience, it doesn't fucking matter.

“Old man yells at ☁️ “ Hilarious. Well, while I long for the convenience of modelers. I’m not left wanting with my tube amps. Back pain it is.

I have tried plug-ins and some modelers. Modelers are OK, but I just can't get any joy from plugins - I can get decent sounds from plug-ins- but I don't get any joy. I must be doing something wrong with them. But I love, love, love my Headstrong Lil King - plug in, turn on and play. Every time, whatever guitar, sounds awesome each and every time into the Headstrong. Nothing will ever beat that for me. Full disclosure - I am 53. I get that the Headstrong is an expensive amp - but I got a not too dis-similar feeling when I played through a Princeton reissue. The Headstrong is quieter (it is dead quiet) and sounds way better than the re-issue, but a player can get in the ballpark with the re-issue and aim to upgrade later. People gig with the Headstrong too.

Fractal tip the scales. Love my hand-wired tubies, love the new Fractal stuff.

I can never relate to this argument when I see it, because to me it’s obvious. Modelers are cheap and convenient, in a variety of ways. Tube amps, which are the things they’re modeling, are better when you can use them. By definition. There are a lot of reasons someone could prefer a modeler, but none of them have to do with how it sounds and feels to play one. So use modelers when you need to, and use the real thing when you can. But I also recognize, due to all of the reasons modelers are more convenient, that it could get to the point where the market for amps becomes small enough that it isn’t viable anymore. That’s the big question to me. Technology has disrupted music in a million ways, more than any other area, and things are still scattered. It’s not clear where a lot of things will settle down.

There are so many low priced used tube and solid state amps. I think some of the people don’t realize their artist might record with real amps but tour with modelers. Many youth I see in the store are buying amps

I agree with Brett, modelers are not the same as real amps and will never be better. and real amps are better. Playing with plugs in and modelers only in your bed room makes it hard to go practice with real drummers, bass players. I think modelers are boring sounding and doesn’t sound as good. Maybe a generation of players who are mostly bed room players. You need stage sound.

I agree with Brett, modelers are not the same as real amps and will never be better. and real amps are better. Playing with plugs in and modelers only in your bed room makes it hard to go practice with real drummers, bass players. I think modelers are boring sounding and doesn’t sound as good. Maybe a generation of players who are mostly bed room players. You need stage sound.

Every time I hear somebody talk about "privilege" I puke in my mouth a little bit.

What makes a guitar a signature model really? Most of them are based off of existing models with stock equipment

Every professional musician I know, including myself, prefers to play through a tube amp with proper stage volume. If you’d rather drive a Kia instead of a Corvette because it’s smaller and gets better gas mileage I don’t know what to tell you…

Great conversation cause it was instruction and entertaining. Next axe in my office is PRS SE Semihollowbody

Long live valve amps and long live rock!

it's about the tone stupid. If you are serious about it you struggle and strive. Nightshift cleaning, mopping up vomit, clean toilets whatever. I can't imagine playing electric guitar without my valve amp.

The modeler sounds fine here Lets compare a real tube amp and a modeler in person and lets see how good the modeler sounds

Well now I wanna hear some Dwight Yoakam horror stories😂.

All this irony coming from two cork sniffers who are call others gate-keepers gives me a chuckle. Yes, there are people, even pros who play night after night through a Helix or Quad Cortex, etc. Ozzy started the "remove amps from the stage" era when Randy was still around. Rush famously had chicken frying and washing machines, several bands had walls of fake Marshalls to give themselves cred. My tube amps are collecting dust, but I can't find it in my heart to sell them. Still, I can't remember a gig where I needed them in the last couple of years. While you're feeding your amps through an OX box or through mic'd cabs in another room, don't call out the poor blokes who are stuck in an apartment or tight neighborhood where playing loud is just not an option. Most of these folk are stuck on stages where space is a dying commodity and wait staff and patrons are tired of yelling over your inflated egos. My son (in his 20's) would rather go somewhere that someone can hear him talk, and while we jam at home as loud as we want, that's just not what people want anymore (unless you're a DJ with a bloated ego). Some of these people not only don't have one of these amps, they couldn't access one without making a trek to another city just to give it a try. Both of you are in the industry and have access to things many people couldn't even hope to see much less play! Oh, just find a mid-60's blah blah blah... Sure, let me just go ask my friends at Guitar Center or local mom-and-pop that have nothing more 'vintage' than a 90's TSL. Come on. Be real. You're living in your little bubble, get out once in a while. Jeesh. I was lucky enough to grow up with that stuff, and unlucky enough to have to lug it in a van from venue to venue. No thanks. Give me my Kemper Stage, throw an XLR to the sound system and I know that there's a consistent sound. And if you cared enough to hear yourself, you'd invest in an IEM system (much cheaper than any vintage amp) so you can hear anywhere on or off stage.

I love tube amps, but having to lug my own gear down the street to the venue and my age of 55 - I need light weight gear. It's a long night of play! I really enjoy my HX Stomp and Fender FR10. The venues we play don't want loud sounds due to older patrons not being able to order their food/drinks.

I started on loud Marshall stacks, moved to smaller heads and combos, and now I'm happy to lug a Kemper Stage, wear IEM's, and be completely noiseless on stage, and I'm only a couple years younger than Beato. I don't care to move backward, and it would seem that the "tube amp or die" people are more of the cork sniffing gate-keepers. I couldn't care less what works for someone else, I'm happy to stay with the tech when it comes to live shows.

Oh, the Tesla folks... Let's not forget there was a whole South Park episode dedicated to the Prius (aka Pius) owners, so let's just say there's always a clique. No, I don't own a Tesla, never would. But there are plenty of hybrid and EV options out there from which to choose. I'm still waiting for the VW micro-bus EV.

The best way to describe it is the tube amp is alive .....

I have a amp I can change tubes anytime and you can hear sounds change with different tubes the power tube and the pre amp tubes . 5 watt thd Pico Valve and drive it with a pedal sounds awesome....

The best thing is to is both so you are always searching for a better sound....

Video starts 38:50

How many watts is the fireplace? 😂

Yeah, you play the amp almost as much as you play the guitar.

During the shutdowns, as an "intro to tube amps" I found a used Blackstar HT-5R locally for $200. I figured if it didn't work I wouldn't lose too much. It would burp and fart and hum weird. I asked the amp tech at the shop where I bought it for an appointment for him to look at it and he suggested I replace the tubes first. I pulled the tubes out to double check the numbers and put them back in. Bingo! It sounded great. I live in a duplex so I don't crank it up unless the neighbors are gone, but I like playing it more than my Katana 50. And I really like playing the two amps together. I like the Blackstar clean and the Katana with effects. For me, it's perfect.

Modelers are a virtual representation of amps, so by virtue of design the amps will always sound "real/better" than modelers...that is a fact! Now, amps are not as reliable than modelers, and you'd need a few amps in order to cover different sounds and we know that amps aren't cheap...to make the most of the amps you'd probably have a few cabs with different speakers as well. So, going the "analog" way is sonically better but again is not cheap, and hard to transport, and not as reliable. Modelers offer a solution that beats the amp in cost, transportation, and reliability. Different tools for different players and different purposes.

As a 33 year old that likes all of the same music as y’all do, who has never had the funds, or the living situation that supports a pushed tube amp, modelers are a godsend. I can now get the sound of my heroes that inspired me to play. I can play along my favorite songs and live shows to RUclips. Best of all, rather than menu diving and stuff and sorting between all the options, I found “my” sound which has driven my gear purchases since. Helix jumpered Marshall with an MXR Micro Amp, plus a Way Huge Red Llama, followed by a tape delay and a plate reverb. Be all end all, it’s just a great time to be a player. I hope one day to play through a 100W Marshall.

This is about laziness. Once you stand in front of a 4x12 cabinet with a good tube head, you can’t seriously enjoy playing through a modeling pedal and not hearing yourself in front of the amp. Also, how do you practice? You have a P.A. at home?

Love these discussions. I think the thing that sticks out to me is that most come from a place of "I have to choose" v "I have a preference". Take a modeler, with an AC30 Model, plugin your favorite pedals in the signal chain, put a couple of Headrush 1000w 12" FRFR monitors on either side of a vocal/band wedge monitor, and I guarantee you're going to feel the sound, you're going to get natural feedback, plenty of low end boom, and all that has the potential of inspiration. In the meantime, FOH is mixing the sound for the audience and the venue. I think it's not about what's better - its what works for the player. Rhett, taking your statement of "it's a tool" to be used as the player deems works for them, really is where a "argument" really ends. Then seeing player like Rabea, who uses modern tones, and then melds modeling with real amps and now there's a potential of infinite sounds. I know Mick and Dan talk "option paralysis" a lot - and true. I would argue that we all have had that same problem in the analogue world - however - the time to results what much much slower. Ok - get the Princeton, ok, now a Soldano, then and AC15, maybe AC30, a Two Rock, etc then a strat, then a LP, then a Jazzmaster.... We've had the same option paralysis in a way - it just took us in the analogue world years and decades to perfect our sound. Then bring in studio options - sm57, royer, ribbons, condensers, preamps, eqs - all that also exists within most modelers. It's an interesting argument. I play in a rock band, blues band, and Mellencamp tribute band - use my QC for it all...and sometimes, I do miss the type of adjustments I can make with my AC15 or Mesa F50, or my Bassbreaker. I like Zach's final thoughts - just try stuff.... we are in a time where we have the options....why not just figure out what works for us/you as a player....

I’m 62 and been playing guitar for many years and never owned or played a real tube amp except for in GC. I play a Helix live and like some of the sounds I’m getting but I don’t love them. Problem is, we have a silent stage so I’ve never even thought about having a tube amp on stage. However last night I pulled the trigger on the new EMGL Steve Morris lunchbox amp. From the demos I’ve heard, it sounds great and it has the ability to play at a lower volume and keep the tone. So I’m looking forward to getting my first tube amp and if I don’t like it, I’ll sell it.

You guys are too young to sound so boomerish!!! The kids have already decided, valve amps are out. They don't have the spaces to play them loud and learn how to control them. You gotta put the time in to connect to them. Young people largely don't have their own house until much later in life. I don't care what people play, as long as they play.

I built an 18 watt TMB Marshall clone about 11 or 12 years ago. It’s only really in the last couple of years that I’ve been able to play this amp out loud on festival stages with The Mighty Flux. There’s nothing like the feeling and the tactile feedback through your hands/ears/body. That’s something I’ve never experienced with digital modellers. I use a modeller in another band and it gets mixed in to a performance with keys/another guitar/ 2 or 3 vocalists/bass and drums. That’s for weddings and it really works in that setting. It’s a great band and we sound really polished. I don’t ever get the feeling that my amplified sound is reacting to what I play or where I stand. Tube (valve) amps however, are a visceral experience which I absolutely love.

Look guys, this episode was even more pretentious and cork-sniffery than usual. All of these comments about modelers, how great loud amps sound and disparaging the Marshall DSL line. I don't know, I think it's even worse than what you complain about with the modeler users. And do you not even realise how privileged you are with tens of thousands of dollars in amps? Of course, a real tube amp might be better than any one of the models of a modeller, but it will not be better than the dozen or so that people might use regularly.

It's sad that these modelling fan boys that denounce tube amps have never experienced a proper great tube amp cranked and pushing air. A modeller will never be able to simulate the feeling of this

How sad is that kids are into Metallica because of S.T.? Metallica were the crap of the 90's, we all made fun of them, and now they're considered the go to for rock?? I'm so glad I'm old

I got bluguitar all analog small eazy to use without use speaker cab or with . It does sound like real amp . Qulter another one great . But sim amp until sound OK but they sound to me it's like Studio with studio speakers get real amp in other room mic up come through in the Studio speaker . I got real tu e amp nice jackson ampworks . But my number 1 is bluguitar mercury 1 with effect on top of it . Keep it small, simple Pedalboard amp 1 and cab .

One thing that I think gets lost in the conversation is that a modeler can get 80-90% of the tone of a real amp…under perfect conditions. Most people can’t get tubes amps loud enough to get the tones they are looking for at home - which is where most people are regularly playing. If you are living in an apartment, have roommates, are a parent, etc. a modeler will do a better job getting those classic tones than tube amps in those use cases.

Profiles can be played just as loud as a Tube amp and in fact you can run a digital unit into a tube power amp into a cab (or Full Range system). Tube amps are great, but they also have massive limitations - playing in the sweet spot for response isn't always the right volume for the venue you are playing in. Pushing 120db+ because you run an non-MV amp into a 4x12 has its own challenges depending on the band and room. What we need are some better playback systems to get a similar sound/feel to the Tube amps now that ToneX can legitimately sound and feel good.

I play live, often, loud and heavy - modelers are a blessing. Until you start playing live and it becomes routine, you can’t have a pragmatic opinion. And I absolutely love big, loud amps.

I believe the main problem with modeling is that it makes it much more difficult to find your own sound. The options are infinite. You can sound just like Jimi by pushing a few buttons. People like Billy Gibbons ,Carlos Santana and Jeff Beck are easily identifiable after a few notes. I don't think many modern players that choose modelers have a tone that speaks to people in this way.

I feel like most guitar podcasts keep cycling through the same 3-4 topics...

I would like to know what Rhett and Zack think about Kirk Hammett and The Edge switching to modelers as of late. Kirk and The Edge have been using tube amps for decades and have only switched within the last few years.

Theres nothing sexy about menu diving for your tone.

I love my Fender tube amps but the load in and out prompted me to move to UA Ruby and Dream, FRFR and playing through PA - the evenness of sound, amp selection (AC30 and Fender Deluxe) and portability is great.

I think the answer to "what should some try?" to get the feel of a tube amp really missed the mark and was, frankly, pretty "Ivory Tower". Telling someone to go find a "good" 60s vintage Fender amp just isn't helpful: such amps may be very hard to find in a particular area and how would someone know whether they found "a good one" without being able to try several (reference the comments about 20% tolerance on components in 60s vintage Fenders). A more helpful answer would be something that would be easily find-able at a local music store. It wouldn't have to be the total "OK, I get it" experience that you guys clearly love so much if it at least moved the needle for the player in terms of "this is what makes a tube amp compelling" compared to a modeler. Rhett did his whole video series on "what is the XYZ sound?", surely something in there could be a reference to aim someone at a place to start.

Nothing beats the 10 inch and 12 inch guitar speakers pushing the air with that 3D harmonic thing it does.

I'm thinking about buying a tube amp, my first… impeccable timing for this podcast topic. Thx, guys. Keep on keeping on 🎸🎸

I began my guitar journey with modelers. Zoom. Digitech. And now boss. I own 8 amps 6 are all tube. I'm dying to get my amps out to gig with but 1) none of the gigging situations I'm in warrant even the 5w and 2) my modeler does such an amazing job and it's such a quick set up I haven't had the motivation to bother with the amps for years.